Recently a conversation was had in one of my critique groups as to our approach on critiques and editing before the first draft is complete.
My input: When I first started writing the manuscript I've been working on (for just about forever), I constantly went back to make edits from critiques and found I was not moving forward with the manuscript. I kept getting stuck in getting each chapter "perfect."
After many many months of frustration, a light bulb finally went off and my intuitation (or was it one of my characters voices) told me..."Hey, will you just finish this manuscript already and edit later. I'm getting tired of rattling around in your head." I had a terrific "Duh Moment" and went with this. I'm now approaching the finish line in FINALLY finishing my first draft.
What's your approach in finishing your first draft? I'd love to hear what your process is and how you overcame your frustrations.
I'm right in the middle of that light bulb thought you had, but haven't moved forward with it! For some reason, my brain seems happier if I make each chapter perfect before moving on. But after more than a year of working on my manuscript I realized that the heart of the novel wasn't where I wanted it to be, so all of those perfect chapters went out the door. That's when I came to the conclusion that it would have been a better use of my time and creativity if I had just written the entire manuscript rough. So now that I'm sure of where I want the heart of my YA novel to be, I am ready to just write the whole thing and not worry about perfecting it along the way!
ReplyDeleteHi Kimberly:
ReplyDeleteThanks for joining in. Your approach is exactly what I've been doing and I haven't reached the finish line. That is why I'm changing my approach. How is your progress going since you changed your approach?
Regards,
Donna
As I am on my third book in a series, for some reason, this one is killing me. I am struggling over every word, every plot point. I think that means I have matured as a writer!
ReplyDeleteI do not think we should do this however, on a first draft, as it does create a very difficult working situation.
Some days I just want to tell myself, "get on with it already!" but my muse is a little fickle and I may be in trouble if I do that so ... we persevere.
I kind of approach with a little of both. As I write, I send the chapters to my critique group. After the meetings, I go back and revise. And I'm always thinking back through what has been written and tweaking. But I also push through to finish the manuscript before I evaluate it as a whole. Then I have fresh readers help me through that revision and another batch reading the next version. So far, it seems to be working, but I don't think there's any one right way.
ReplyDeleteGreat discussion, Donna! It's wonderful to hear how others go about finishing their manuscripts--you never know, you might find a technique that works for you! I think each writer has their own approach and as Shari said, there isn't one right way!
ReplyDeleteI do like to include critique suggestions and revise each chapter as I go along. But I don't stay stuck on one chapter for too long. I incorporate the suggestions I like, then head back to the chapter where I left off! I just can't see myself organizing all of my critiques in one place to use later! I have enough paper piling up, it's the last thing I need! It's also fresh on my mind which is why I like to add them in as soon as I can. I think it also helps from avoiding the same mistakes later on.
I'm proud to say I just finished my first draft for my middle-grade novel. Even though, I've added critique suggestions along the way, now comes the process of reading it through, editing and revising more. I know there are still ways to strengthen my characters and maybe add a different scene in a chapter, but the feeling of knowing the manuscript is at least in first draft form is inspiring to keep writing and revising! So however you get there, just focus on getting there!
Good luck with everyone's manuscripts!
All the best,
Lori
www.loricalabrese.com
My approach is 'write first, edit later.'
ReplyDeleteI currently have a chapter book in progress. The current draft is written and the first half, more or less, has been through my critique group. I just sent the whole manuscript to my writing partner.
I wrote the entire first draft (5000 words -- the current version is double that) at one sitting.
I try to make an effort and just write first, but sometimes the temptation to edit as I write along is too great. I try to keep a balance but always aware that I must shut down my inner critic.
ReplyDeleteAs I'm writing, if I think of a change, I make it then. I edit sightly (yes, sightly - if I see something jarring, I change it so I don't forget) as I go, but I don't do in depth editing until the end. However, I do print out the material after I've finished a section and look it over. I do the general editing as I go so that coherency isn't lost.
ReplyDeleteI've read books that had a lack of cohesion or lack of comprehension because the author made a change in the first part of the book, after the manuscript is finished, that wasn't changed or adapted later in the book.
I don't usually look for critiques until I'm finished.
So far my method has worked well for me.
Great discussion, Donna! I think too it is so easy to get caught up in all the editing and perfecting along the way and lose sight of just writing. I tend to get focused on editing too often and, before you know it, my writing time is gone for the day and I've not written a single word. My mission, for the summer at least with the kids home, is to just write, write, write and worry about the perfecting and editing later.
ReplyDeleteKarin
Since I don't write anything but short stories, I usually write through and then do my editing and then send to a couple of friends to edit and then take to critique group if I have the time or I'm still seeking something to make the story better. I haven't been to critique group in a while so mostly I finish, do a read through and edit what I catch (found some missing words recently in my draft of State of Reservations while finishing it up) and then send to a friend or two to edit. When it's fixed up from their suggestions or edits, I send to Vivian to do her thing and go from there - I can't really edit as I go along because then the story wouldn't really get written on my part.
ReplyDeleteNice discussion - thanks for sharing, Donna. - See you all in the postings - E :)
With my book, "Guardian," I had eight versions before I finally sent it out - like you, realized I could edit it forever.
ReplyDeleteI "tried" to finish a first draft, but as I was going along, kept thinking of plot twists. I could not write more of the book without adding those in, because they would dictate what I would write from that point on.
Still, I had a finished version by the end of three, so I think I did okay.
The hardest thing was to send the ms. out to the pubisher, because I knew I could come up with more things to change!
I'm all over the place with this critque/editing process. Sometimes I just plow through to the end, writing badly and accepting that I'll have to wait to "get it right" later.
ReplyDeleteThen I'll get hung up on a chapter or a scene and become a Dirvish-going around and around, trying to find exact word or tone. I think this happens mostly when I don't where to go next in the story.
Kim...I love our little voices from within us, that give us a good kick in the pants! I know for one, I need to start listening to mine a bit more.
ReplyDeleteShari...your approach in evaluating as a whole makes a lot of sense. I agree there is no right way. I find it changes from ms to ms.
Lori...congratulations on finishing your first draft. Quite the accomplishment. Good luck with your editing process.
Maggie...good luck with your continued edits. The muse must have been with you to write the first draft in one sitting. Good for you.
Mayra...sound advice of shutting down your inner critic. I love it!
Vivian...your approach on cohesion makes a lot of sense. One I need to keep in mind.
Karin...your approach with the summer vacation for many students now upon us, makes a lot of sense. Good luck.
Elysabeth...your approach is yet another way. Good luck with your edits.
Katie...your technique definitely paid off for you in the end. Good luck with your release this summer!
Sliding on the Edge...I have felt like this many times too. Good luck with your process.
Best wishes to all for your continued success!
Warmly,
Donna
I do both! I'll write, then a little editing, write, little more editing. It never holds up forward progress though, and I certainly don't try to make a chapter perfect until I've completed the work.
ReplyDeleteL. Diane Wolfe
www.circleoffriendsbooks.blogspot.com
www.spunkonastick.net
www.thecircleoffriends.net
Diane...thanks for stopping by and contributing to the conversation. I certainly like your take about not making a chapter until the work is completed.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Donna
This is such a great topic. When I teach creative writing, I always tell my students to just write and write fast. Ignore the grammar and don't worry about the typos and punctuation. (-: Find advice for an editor, huh? But the idea is be creative. We can sweat the details later.
ReplyDeleteBest,
Carolyn Howard-Johnson
Author of the multi award-winning The Frugal Editor
Carolyn...love your advice to sweat the details later. Need to incorporate it. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Donna
The teacher in me is always looking for the misspelled word, the punctuation mark, the sentence fragment. I tend to edit as I go along and it takes me forever. With my latest story, I finally sketched out the last few chapters so I could get to the end. Now I'm going back to the beginning. Along the way I make notes on sticky notes that I need to add something here, or take out, or whatever occurs to me as I'm typing.
ReplyDeleteI've enjoyed reading everyone's method of writing. I'm trying to do better on the first draft. It's not easy, going on when a thought pops into my brain.
Bev
http://beverlystowemcclure.wordpress.com
Hi Beverly...I use post-it notes too. I believe I keep the post-it company in business. I've often wondered how your background as a teacher goes into your editing. Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Donna
I can offer insights as a writer and a professional manuscript critiquer.
ReplyDeleteDonna, your "Duh Moment" served you well. Get those ideas down ASAP: tweaking, pruning and reworking it can come later.
I also think it is fine to ask your crit group for advice, suggestions, or input regarding a particular chapter or paragraph while still working on your story. However, requesting a critique before you have ironed out most of the wrinkles is asking a lot of your group.
As a professional at the crit game, let me say that the more time I have to spend "fixing," commenting, and offering examples, the higher my fee - so it pays to send an MS that is as good as you can make it.
And in my own crit group, we love helping each other with knotty individual plot or character problems, but do not appreciate having to comment or fix basic writing chores. We only ask for critiques of chapters that are fairly well polished.
Manuscript Critiques - My Books!
http://www.margotfinke.com
http://margotfinke.blogspot.com/
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
BUY any Autographed Book from my website, and
receive a FREE LINK to me READING that story!
Hi Margot...your insights are valuable. I especially like your advice on a fairly well polished chapter. Makes a lot of sense. The way your critique works is terrific. Especially for the more seasoned writer.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing.
Best,
Donna
I almost always write first and edit later, but now that I am part of a regular critique group it is a bit harder because I like to read their suggestions and it makes me want to start editing right away.
ReplyDeleteCheryl
Cheryl...that is what I was doing until I had my "DUH" and realized I wasn't moving forward. Best wishes with your critique group.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Donna
To Donna,
ReplyDeleteI always love my first draft as it comes out of my head. I enjoy the twists, turns, and surprises as a writer. Then after it is written, I need to wait to revise unless it is far beyond the word limit. In that case I can cut and slash right away. Getting feedback on the piece is very important. I have a number of writer friends that I trust. When I know that I am making it better I am ecstatic.
Joe...having a network of writers who will give you feedback is instrumental in making your ms move forward and not get stalled. I like your idea of waiting to revise, that way you certainly can get a better outlook on your ms.
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by.
Regards,
Donna
I go for the two steps forward one step back approach. If I don't reread the last bit, I find my writing gets too disjointed (is that because I usually stop at the worst point because the phone rings, the son needs a ride, the husband needs his calendar checked... whatever?), so I read and edit yesterday's bit and keep going for today, then reread today's bit tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteSheila...yet another great approach. Hmm...life certainly does get the way. Thanks for stopping by.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Donna
Donna and Beverly, I'm glad to hear someone else uses lots of sticky notes. I have them all around the house and whenever I think of something for whatever projects I'm working on, I write it down and stick on the appropriate page.
ReplyDeleteI like to think that I just write it all down and let the words flow on the first draft, but the truth is, I edit a little bit as I go. Writing is such a fluid process, isn't it? It would be neat to watch our brain activity as we write to see all the synapses lighting up. LOL
Hi, Donna,
ReplyDeleteI'm the co-moderator of a children's writing critique group. What Margot mentioned about sending in polished (as best you can) mss for your group to critique, this is so important. It's time consuming to have to help with the basics.
As far as my mss, I always submit my finished work. Then when I get the critiques I like to edit one chapter at a time taking into account each group members' suggestions.
It's also important to remember to use your own inner voice as to which suggestions to use.
Great topic!
Karen
Beth: Thanks for sharing your process. I agree, it would be amazing to watch our brain waves while writing.
ReplyDeleteKaren: Thanks for stopping by and sharing with us your experience. Especially listening to our inner voice. Many times if we don't we kick ourselves in the pants later.
Best wishes,
Donna
I am working on the final third of a young adult fiction novel and I feel -- having taken both approaches -- that a writer should focus on completing the first draft without perfecting each chapter along the way. I only go back and revise a chapter if it drastically changes the story, which is what happened to me early on. Since then, I have kept plugging right along. In the end you will probably end up with fewer revisions if you don't focus on making things perfect along the way.
ReplyDelete"Writing is like everything else: the more you do it the better you get. Don't try to perfect as you go along, just get to the end of the damn thing. Accept imperfections. Get it finished and then you can go back. If you try to polish every sentence there's a chance you'll never get past the first chapter." (Iain Banks)
Patricia Shirra
Children's & Young Adult Author
Member of SCBWI
visit my blog spot at ...
http://patriciashirra.blogspot.com/
visit my website ...
http://home.comcast.net/~patriciashirra/psmainpage.htm
Patricia: Thanks for stopping by. I am in complete agreement with you and thanks for offering the quote. Oh so very true.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes,
Donna